I've been noticing it for a while... talking about it for a while, and replying as best I can when it happens; an influx of feminist posters, commenters, and voters in reddit's /r/mensrights. I've seen that other MRAs have started to notice it, too, so I decided to do a search in the sub using the word feminist, and highlight some of the posts which either were troll posts, or included a lot of feminist trolling.
Read: that means if your post is included in this list, that doesn't necessarily mean I think you are a troll. Before anyone gets hurt feelings, look through not just the post itself, but the comments underneath, or look through the list to see if your post (or the comment response) is part of a pattern I'm noting. I've tagged some posts to make it easier to see, but I don't have time to go through and tag everything.
There are several, including (but not limited to)
- "Feminism is your friend. You just don't understand." (Can't we all just get along?)
- "Not All Feminists Are Like That" (NAFALT)
- Tone policing, including "don't criticize feminism," "you sound whiny," "you sound misogynistic," etc.
- "You're not good enough" (You're not doing anything. You're not helping group X. You're not talking about topic Y.)
- Attempts to sneak feminist rhetoric into the sub
- Divide and Conquer - attempts to create animosity or other conflict between /r/mensrights and other groups, or deny that the men's rights movement includes groups that are included in the movement (like gay men's rights, or trans rights.)
- Fishing - posting something inflammatory or carefully worded to create an emotional response in order to facilitate quote mining.
That also means that if there's a lot of feminist support in the comments, that doesn't necessarily mean I don't think the post is a troll post, either - it may well be. Rather than placing a label, I'm simply tracking patterns.
This post is not intended to call any specific redditor out (though if I have someone tagged as SRS or AMR, that's not getting removed from your name when I post it here.) Nor is it complete. There are posts I remember responding to in the past that I did not find using this method, so this entry will be periodically updated as I am able to go back and find those, as well. I have seen 2 to 4 a month up until the last few weeks, when there has been a dramatic increase, as far as I can tell.
If you see posts you think belong here, PM me on reddit or leave a comment here, and I'll update.
*note - I've recently added links to several self-posts which are all variations on asking if the MRM supports gay rights, or claiming it doesn't and asking why. If you see your post here, it doesn't mean I'm calling your post a troll post. It is simply that we're seeing the same self-posts over and over on this topic, with small variation, and that's a pattern.
Why is feminism discussed so much on this subreddit? (self.MensRights)
submitted by futfootballer /u/AMRthroaway linked to AMR
i don't understand (self.MensRights)
So, I've been calling feminist groups in Canada about my effort to open more men's shelters, and have been pleasantly surprised. (self.MensRights)
submitted 19 Apr 2014 by William_Red
/r/againstmensrights vote manipulation used to boost feminist-friendly comments to top of thread
An example of feminism done right. (self.MensRights)
submitted by Broken_Castle
Are men's rights in the US really being impinged upon? How? (self.MensRights)
submitted 17 Apr 2014 by MyUnpopularThoughts
Privilege as a cattle prod
51|29) submitted by dullboy9000
92|28) submitted 08 Apr 2014 by adevil
This comment amounts to the claim that linking to a comment in a thread equals vote brigading,
Now, one can reasonably argue that linking to a comment does not constitute brigading, especially when the link is an np (nonparticipation) link. However, one can't so reasonably argue that one who says that linking to a comment is done for the purpose of brigading is innocent of attempting to brigade when linking to a comment.
What does being a male rights activist mean to you? (self.MensRights)
3|8) submitted by Prankster_Bob
43|32) submitted by Mouon
7|5) submitted by murtaza64
40|14) submitted 13 Feb 2014 by RelentlesslyDead
This is not a troll post, but it links to a post that goes along with a pattern I've seen with young accounts claiming to have visited /r/mensrights, read unspecified posts, and come to the conclusion that the sub and sometimes the movement is anti-some factor, usually something it's politically incorrect to oppose or criticize. When called the anti-factor claim, they offer replies that boil down to "you disagreed with something I or someone else said that I or they linked to (whatever the factor was) and therefore you're anti-(that factor.) Following an original post along the lines of "I had subjective experience X as a factor-1 person, therefore conclusion," MRAs may argue that the experience is subjective, that factor-1 doesn't make the experience applicable to everyone, or that the conclusion is based on some other flawed thinking. That is cited by anyone supporting the poster's stated conclusion as an indication that the sub is anti-factor-1, not because it's an indication of such, but because that's easier to do than make arguments supporting the conclusion. I've seen being gay or female as the factor a lot, but the trend lately seems to be using "I'm transgender" instead.
submitted by lolbye1
submitted by Dexter77
The short version: "I'm a trans-woman who entered life as a woman carrying a belief in the concept of male privilege, and have interpreted all of my experiences as confirmation of it. Since I'm trans, you now have to believe in male privilege."
Bonus: Brigaded by /r/againstmensrights.
Why did sillymod remove the Occidental College post?" Let me tell you why. (self.MensRights)
Vote and comment brigaded by SRS, AMR, and SRD
Also, I was able to get an interesting result by engaging AMR trolls in discussion under the post.
"Talking about men's issues is whining. Disagreeing with me that talking about men's issues is whining makes you a feminist."
submitted by chris3992m
39|10) submitted by FractalDude
Divide and Conquer
Divide and Conquer
perfectdesignNot a troll post, but the post itself was trolled in the comments.
2|3) submitted by hhoburg
Not All MRAs Are Like That (self.MensRights)
8|10) submitted by Mishap89
Divide and Conquer
submitted on by Kate150
A little confusion maybe you can clear up? (self.MensRights)
submitted by punxpunx54"I've seen the term "red pill" thrown around here. Does this refer to the subreddit, or is it referring to the phrase as an alternative to "having my eyes opened"?
Infographic: 40% of rapists are female (i.imgur.com)
This is not a spam or troll post, but instead describes brigading that has happened in relation to discussion on the Anita Sarkeesian videos.
Tone Policing, Divide and Conquer
submitted by Down-n-Dirty
Tone Policing: Attempts to use term "Misogynistic" in describing men's rights blogs to poison MRAs against outspoken Men's rights bloggers.
103|41) submitted by Little_maroon_alien
15|20) submitted by bubbleearth
submitted by Camerinthus
7|3) submitted by turiyag
An Argument of Semantics: What does feminism mean to you? (self.MensRights)
Tone Policing, NAFALT
NAFALT, but guys, it's a graphic so believe it!
Day old account, depressing message, maybe not a troll, but it sure looks like one.
2|5) submitted by ga13be
(Originally linked from /r/mensrights. Post removed by OP, who didn't like responses to it.)
Not a troll or brigade - just shows that there are MRAs who do not know everything feminism has done.
OP is longstanding MRA, but post invaded by trolls due to subject matter.
3|4) submitted by NEET_Here
(wonder why a sub where gay rights does get discussed keeps getting asked if gay rights are part of the discussion?)
(23|24) submitted on by nutflushdraw
This one is pretty ridiculous, apparently posted just to give SRSers a place to circlejerk in the sub. Regularly posting MRAs are downvoted into hiding, while the top voted comment is a blatantly feminist viewpoint not actually related to the sub or the movement. Not even sure what kind of an effect they thought this effort would achieve.
(656|133) submitted by SUPERSMILEYMAN
This is not an MR regular. The wording of the post itself is rather fake - it's like a parody of "women behaving badly" posts, intended to set off comments. I think this one is trolling with intent to inspire speech which can be labeled "hate speech."
28|17) submitted 02 Feb 2013 by viganhe005
1|4) submitted by Jaguscoth
A myth is a myth is a myth... unless there's a political group dedicated to ignoring it. Then the methods by which it was created continue to be employed, and eventually get picked up by the CDC. (self.MensRights)
22|3) submitted by Xc2U
3|1) submitted 13 Jan 2013 by anhero23
(1957|689) submitted by DougDante This thread contains vote brigading and feminist apologists.
4|2) submitted by SpaghettiLeftovers
Is it possible to be a Feminist AND a MRA? (self.MensRights)
submitted by kelloo
Immediately garnered "this is not a men's rights issue" and a brigade.
4|2) submitted 07 Jan 2013 by vanillabean2492
(Divide and conquer)
Why is there a double standard in r/MensRights when it comes to generalization of feminists? (self.MensRights)
As a feminist, thank you r/MensRights. (self.MensRights)
(1649|610) submitted 30 Dec 2012 by absolutekraze
7 Tactics Used by Academic Feminists To Suppress Information (self.MensRights)
(comment section)Where Girlwriteswhat gets downvote brigaded by /r/againstmensrights for asserting that effective birth control is better than ineffective birth control
(256|72) submitted by Inbefore121
Men's Rights vs. Feminism vs. Egalitarianism (self.MensRights)
what do you look for in a partner? (self.MensRights)
(111|68) submitted by TheCameraLady
A question from an outsider. (self.MensRights)
(20|16) submitted by carpetpowder
Why do we have Men's Rights and Feminist Groups? Why not Gender Equality groups? (self.MensRights (8|11) submitted by Skwalin
A discussion on the word feminism. (self.MensRights)
Well this is new. A feminist forum bringing awareness of men's rights issues, but still calling it feminism.(i.imgur.com)
I'm a little confused (self.MensRights)
I could be wrong, and this could just be a badly concluded paper, but the presentation of it here in this manner makes this post look to me like a quote-mining effort instead of a genuine attempt to get a paper graded, as it would provide a quote-miner with the ability to refer back to it later and twist people's comments into "MRAs support refusing to prosecute anyone accused of acquaintance rape," which will in turn be stretched to mean "MRAs support rape."
Why "Men's Rights" and not simply Egalitarianism? (self.MensRights)
(18|11) submitted by Fundieathiest
Feminist Here with some questions. Not looking to start a fight, but I just want to learn/understand. Long post sorry. (self.MensRights)
(13|17) submitted by littlepocketknife
Why all the feminist bashing?
Is the men's rights movement too focused on being the anti-feminist movement? (self.MensRights)
(114|44) submitted ago by Sigwein
I think we should stop using the word feminist. (self.MensRights)
Do you think Feminists can ever get along with MRA's? (self.MensRights)(16|9) submitted by Species_0002
MR, what's your biggest "feminist" belief, or opinion that wouldn't mesh well with other MRA's? (self.MensRights)
Female with a question about alliance-building around gender equality (self.MensRights)
Isn't this subreddit getting kind of biased? (self.MensRights)
(35|9) submitted 01 May 2012 by nlakes
Appeal for more diplomatic feminist labels in discussion.
35|37) submitted 11 Apr 2012* by muckette
Do you hate Feminists? (self.MensRights)
I'm new to Men's Rights and I am a feminist. Now that we have that out of the way, I want to let you know that I (and I believe most feminists my age) agree with the basic tenets of MRAs, if not the language and attitude of it.
(25|27) submitted 05 Jan 2012* by hippiechan
A suggestion for MensRights to maybe help the dialogue. (self.MensRights)
(13|14) submitted by dangerousbirde
Feminists for men's rights (self.MensRights)
I have a serious question. (self.MensRights)
Am I allowed to identify as both a Feminist and an MRA? (self.MensRights)
submitted by twelveovertwo
(25|19) submitted * by topoi
So, I noticed the "are you a feminist" question in the MensRights side bar - Yes, I am a feminist (self.MensRights)
Something I've been thinking about feminism and gender egalitarianism. I'm here for good discussion, not to attack you. Please give me the same courtesy. (self.MensRights)
Straight MRAs, how do you feel about gay MRAs who don't always have the same issues that you do? (self.MensRights)
submitted * by Silgrenus
How does mensrights feel about transgendered people, transmen, transwomen, the genderless and so on? (self.MensRights)
(30|20) submitted by gerberakasbah
Does r/mensrights realize that the only people standing in the way of mens rights are other men? (self.MensRights)
332|113) submitted by iamunstrung
44|38) submitted * by conn1e
I'm sorry, but I just had to say something. I'm sick of all these threads complaining about 'stupid feminist' and 'feminazis' and whatever other derogatory crap you want to throw at women who believe in equality for them.
I love this forum, it's great, men get kicked around some times too. This should be fought for too. But don't sink to the same low as these women who think they're feminists, but arn't, and slander men.
A true feminist just wants a fair go, she wants to work as hard as you (at WHATEVER, except maybe something like sport that is just genuinely unfair due to anatomy). This includes working when she's got her period, or pregnant. She's not a princess bitching about how men don't kiss her feet.
Don't slander feminists, they're supporting you. We can't be equal if men aren't.
Edit: Um wow. This is exactly what I needed to understand. I was angry because I lacked insight, into men's AND women's rights. I don't have the sheer power to reply to you all but once again, thankyou. I feel a bit emotional. I think I need to do a bit of reflection.
TL;DR, I am equalitarian. :)
(702|412) submitted * by joannchilada
I know many MR readers *really* don't like feminists, but I thought this was an interesting study (self.MensRights)(5|9) submitted * by a_curious_koala(NAFALT)
A question from an employee of a "feminist" non-profit (self.MensRights)